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Hi, I'm poly and I don't exist.
Hi, I'm a polyamorous woman, and I don't exist. In fact, I don't believe that polyamorous people exist.
“Huh?” I hear you say. “But you just declared yourself polyamorous. Up there! It says so!”
I did, and I do. I call myself polyamorous because I see this as an important part of how I relate to other people in my life. So I call myself poly in the same way I call myself an agnostic, or a Londoner, or a wearer of polka-dotted shirts. I get sick and tired, though, of hearing about poly people vs. monogamous people as though we're different species. Worse, the constant bickering about whether it's 'natural' for human beings in general to be monogamous or not. Good grief! Are we animals? It seems like a lot of people are deeply invested in perpetuating the split, but it's a false dichotomy that drives me up the wall. This may be an unpopular position but here I go:
There is no such thing as a polyamorous person.
There is no such thing as a monogamous person either.
I find it bizarre how often discussions about poly versus mono the arguments seem to fall back to biology. Folk are either claiming that we are ALL supposed to be one or the other, or they're claiming that there's a hard-wired difference between the two. Really? It's like claiming there is a biological reason for being a liberal versus a conservative, or a vegetarian versus a carnivore . The difference between these people is simple, obvious and nobody's arguing it: belief. When the issue is how to run a country or what to eat for dinner we're all happy to stick with arguing that this or that is the more rational option – x or y is better because it benefits people (or animals) in this or that way. So why on earth, when the issue is how to organise relationships, does everyone start insisting that nature has all of the answers?
Seriously, why on earth is anyone asking which is the 'natural' way to be? The natural way for us to be, running along some of these lines of thinking, is naked, eating raw foods and huddling in natural caves for warmth. Except that's not true either – the natural thing for us to be doing, as creatures of logic and imagination is *thinking* and basing our behaviours on the result of conscious thought, whatever internal system of logic we happen to be using.
What does nature want us to be doing? You know... it really doesn't matter. We started ignoring what nature wanted from us the minute we started adapting our environments to suit ourselves instead of vice versa. What matters is what we THINK. In other words, the difference between the mind of a monogamous person and that of a polyamorous person is the thoughts and beliefs inside it – and these are mutable things. On a daily basis people make the decision to stop, or start eating meat, choose which party to vote for, make decisions about moral and cultural issues based on their experiences and understanding of the world around them. If we are rational adults – and I think we are all aspiring to be rational adults here, no? - then we base our decisions on what our logic circuits tell us, not our bodies.
I'm Emanix. I'm a carnivore. Not because I believe it's the only right way to be. Not because I believe it's more natural, or more 'evolved', or because there is a fundamental difference between my brain chemistry and that of my vegetarian friends. I'm carnivorous because to me it's what makes sense on a daily basis.
Oh, and I happen to be polyamorous too.
I've had a few comments on the carnivore thing. Yes I know what carnivore actualy means, yes it's hyperbole for the sake of humour. My artistic license can be viewed here: [link to Artistic License'] it states 'Licensed to bend the truth in the name of comedy'. Can we get back to the point now please?
“Huh?” I hear you say. “But you just declared yourself polyamorous. Up there! It says so!”
I did, and I do. I call myself polyamorous because I see this as an important part of how I relate to other people in my life. So I call myself poly in the same way I call myself an agnostic, or a Londoner, or a wearer of polka-dotted shirts. I get sick and tired, though, of hearing about poly people vs. monogamous people as though we're different species. Worse, the constant bickering about whether it's 'natural' for human beings in general to be monogamous or not. Good grief! Are we animals? It seems like a lot of people are deeply invested in perpetuating the split, but it's a false dichotomy that drives me up the wall. This may be an unpopular position but here I go:
There is no such thing as a polyamorous person.
There is no such thing as a monogamous person either.
I find it bizarre how often discussions about poly versus mono the arguments seem to fall back to biology. Folk are either claiming that we are ALL supposed to be one or the other, or they're claiming that there's a hard-wired difference between the two. Really? It's like claiming there is a biological reason for being a liberal versus a conservative, or a vegetarian versus a carnivore . The difference between these people is simple, obvious and nobody's arguing it: belief. When the issue is how to run a country or what to eat for dinner we're all happy to stick with arguing that this or that is the more rational option – x or y is better because it benefits people (or animals) in this or that way. So why on earth, when the issue is how to organise relationships, does everyone start insisting that nature has all of the answers?
Seriously, why on earth is anyone asking which is the 'natural' way to be? The natural way for us to be, running along some of these lines of thinking, is naked, eating raw foods and huddling in natural caves for warmth. Except that's not true either – the natural thing for us to be doing, as creatures of logic and imagination is *thinking* and basing our behaviours on the result of conscious thought, whatever internal system of logic we happen to be using.
What does nature want us to be doing? You know... it really doesn't matter. We started ignoring what nature wanted from us the minute we started adapting our environments to suit ourselves instead of vice versa. What matters is what we THINK. In other words, the difference between the mind of a monogamous person and that of a polyamorous person is the thoughts and beliefs inside it – and these are mutable things. On a daily basis people make the decision to stop, or start eating meat, choose which party to vote for, make decisions about moral and cultural issues based on their experiences and understanding of the world around them. If we are rational adults – and I think we are all aspiring to be rational adults here, no? - then we base our decisions on what our logic circuits tell us, not our bodies.
I'm Emanix. I'm a carnivore. Not because I believe it's the only right way to be. Not because I believe it's more natural, or more 'evolved', or because there is a fundamental difference between my brain chemistry and that of my vegetarian friends. I'm carnivorous because to me it's what makes sense on a daily basis.
Oh, and I happen to be polyamorous too.
I've had a few comments on the carnivore thing. Yes I know what carnivore actualy means, yes it's hyperbole for the sake of humour. My artistic license can be viewed here: [link to Artistic License'] it states 'Licensed to bend the truth in the name of comedy'. Can we get back to the point now please?
![[link to Artistic License']](http://www.maxinegreen.co.uk/jnt/toons/ArtisticLicence-RLSm.jpg){kind=link}
no subject
Personally, I think being someone who prefers and seeks out multiple relationships is as much a choice as liking men, women or both. My desire to have multiple relationships is as old as me wanting relationships in the first place. I never chose Poly and I reject the notion that I choose to be in a relationship that's polyamorous as much as a gay man would reject the notion that he chooses to like men.
I'm happy to debate this on here, but I appreciate how hard it is to discuss opposing points of view online so please, if you're going, find me at BiCon and we can chat about it there instead :)
no subject
I do have to point out that desire and action are not the same thing. I don't believe there is a person on earth, poly or mono that has never looked at a person they weren't dating and desired them. The thing that makes the difference is your belief as to whether it is okay or not okay to act on that desire. This is what I'm talking about here.
There are few things that annoy me more than the old 'I couldn't help it, I fell in love!' trope, which I have to say this reminds me of. Every interaction with another person, or with the environment around you involves choices on a conscious level, and barring a very few of us with severe mental illnesses, we all have much more control of our behaviour than many of us would like to admit to. You may well not have chosen to hold the particular beliefs or experiences that lead you to conclude that poly makes sense to you, but you absolutely have the option to behave in a not-poly way, which makes this about conscious choice, not about desire.
My point here though, is not that this is a switch that people can flip on and off whenever they choose - I doubt many conservatives consciously chose to be conservatives either, but that it is a ridiculous and ultimately useless argument to make. If these things were truly based in biological difference, nobody would ever be capable of going from one belief position to the other, and that's simply and obviously not true.
Also just because you 'feel' that something's right for you, that doesn't make it based in biology, it just means that it is based on a deeper laid belief about the value of whateveritis and how it relates to your life. These things can and do alter for many people every day.
I don't discount the possibility that my ideas about what suits me may change too based on some input that I may or may not have chosen. Two + two continues to equal four no matter what the genetic code of the person counting it, but if I have been told that a plus sign means 'double the two figures before adding them together' then suddenly it will signify eight to me.
no subject
This is why I'm happy to continue this in-person, but would like to not continue this conversation on here.
This line smacks of a really unpleasant attitude/opinion akin to "just because you're gay doesn't mean you shouldn't get a wife and have kids". Obviously, this isn't a stance I'd ever associate with yourself, which means carrying on this conversation feels really really awkward.
This is something I'd really like to explore with you and either France and/or OpenCon provide some excellent backdrops and opportunities for this potentially tricky subject. Feel free to bring this up next time we meet up :)
no subject
Your original comment displayed a curious ambivalence to poly which implied that you felt you had no choice about being so, and might prefer to be otherwise. My point was that if you honestly preferred to behave otherwise, you have that option open to you.
None of this reflects on my opinion of you as a person, and I hope to enjoy the trip to France, but perhaps we can leave the intellectual debate for later in the trip.
no subject
*nods enthusiastically*
I think there has been a crossed wire somewhere so yes, let's leave this one be :)